11/08/2004

Scorched Earth approach to victory or Romans vs Mongols

Daily Kos :: Comments Taking the low road

How do you think the Romans and the Mongols built empires who were that big and lasted for far longer than the "American empire" has?

Mongols versus Romans

Mongolian Empire: around 120 years


  • Military Genius
  • Ruthless conquerors (Scorched earth victory)
  • Massive casualties (millions)
  • Executed aristocrats of conquered lands
  • Loyalty above all
  • After conquest, tolerant w/ locals who respected their law
  • Simple nomadic life, culture
  • Rebuilding of the stuff he himself destroyed: Partial and limited to what they valued, but done
  • 700 years of influence in culture, population of area

Roman Empire: 1000+ years

  • Military Genius
  • "Fair" conquerors: avoided damaging civilian institutions
  • Civilian casualties avoided
  • BEFRIENDED aristocrats of conquered lands: Gave them government jobs, palaces, bribes
  • Rome above all but not tyranny
  • Tolerant w/ locals who respected their law
  • Vast culture, philosophy, arts
  • Building aqueducts, roads, palaces on conquered lands
  • 2,000+ years of influence in culture, population of WORLD


Romans were nice to conquered lands
In their wars they won by discipline and strategy not by ferocity. On the contrary, blind fury was usually what spelled their opponents disaster.

They also made a practice of putting a well regarded local in charge of the conquered province, or at least highly involved and wined and dined him and his cohorts. By bribing the local higher ups in the area they bought local goodwill and preserved a little bit of the loosers pride intact. That's why they still had troops left to keep on conquering and even got the conquered to join the Roman army.

If Romans had invaded Iraq in 2003 you can bet that we would be having peace now. And a new ally.

Mongols empire lasted less than 150 years
Gengis Kahn ferocity conquered a vast ammount of land, but it didn't last. After his death his empire slowly crumbled and old enemies took such a massive revenge on the remaining mongols that they never recovered from it. Mongolia remained a sparsely populated wasteland for centuries after that.

Genghis Khan empire lasted from 1279 to 1391. He destroyed the existing aristocracy of every region he controlled. Genghis Khan's waging of war was characterized by wholesale destruction on unprecedented scale ... Mongols have massacred over 700,000 people in Merv and more than a million in Nishapur. China has also suffered drastic decline in population due to Khan's reign.

There were a number of reasons for the relatively rapid decline of the Mongols as an influential power. One important factor was their failure to acculturate their subjects to Mongol social traditions... It [ the empire] was too large for one person to administer.. yet adequate coordination was impossible ..

Unlike the Romans whose empire lasted 1,000 years, Khan was unable to make allies of the conquered lands leaders. The result was that he and his successors could barely keep their empire alive for 120 years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genghis_Khan
http://lcweb2.loc.gov/frd/cs/mntoc.html

they will regret it

The divisive climate we are right now is their doing. From the early days of Rush to the latest of Ah-nold, they have been manipulating and twisting mindsets, insecurities and people's religion to produce a massive clique of spiteful outraged fundie clones.

A father shouldn't instigate his kids to fight among each other and neither should a President of a major party. Their irresponsible exploitation of people's emotions and perceptions to create warring tribes may eventually come back to haunt them. It produced 1 suicide already... I hope it's the last death due to this divisiness

Scorched earth approach to victory

We win but to get there we had to burn all the moral "houses and fields", poisoned all the friendship wells and all we are left at the end is a vast unfriendly wasteland incapable of nourishing us or anyone else.

Is that worth it ?

Rove and the Bushies think so, but I think we should know better.

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